In this episode, we dive into the contrasting worlds of agency life and working for an explosive brand, exploring the challenges and successes that come with each. Our guest Karly discusses the importance of networking, surrounding yourself with the right people, and being open to new opportunities that propel you forward. She also shares her journey of writing a book, building a personal brand from the ground up, and the pivotal role their executive coach played in her personal and professional evolution.
We touch upon the e-commerce landscape, the exponential growth of online stores since the pandemic, and what it takes to create a successful business. Listen in as we explore the significance of having a clear vision, project plan, KPIs, and a monitoring dashboard – vital tools for any entrepreneur or business owner. Don't miss this engaging and insightful conversation filled with powerful takeaways that could transform your entrepreneurial journey.
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I am doing very well today. It is finally a sunny day in Vancouver, so I'm happy.
Speaker 2:And you're back at home because you have been jet-setting based on your Twitter. You've been all over the place, every single person, indeed to see Twitter, what's been going on. Where have you been?
Speaker 1:I just got back from Croatia. on Saturday With our man Caleb. Yes, caleb was there and Isaac was there as well, and then I will be going to New York on Friday, so it's actually Nick Sharma's birthday next week. I don't know if you knew that.
Speaker 2:I did not know that. Is that going to be a big D2C bash?
Speaker 1:I'm not sure yet I know I actually just found out there's also a Lunar Solar event going on, so I'm going to go to that. I love hanging out with D2C people, so that's what I've been doing the last seven months is going to every single event possible, so that's been fun.
Speaker 2:Help me understand this a little bit. So in the UK, where I'm from, when you work for a company you might travel, But it's quite rare. But in the States it seems like you guys are nomads. You just pick up your suitcases and one week you're in New York, another week you're in LA or an event in Texas. It's kind of crazy. One, where do you get the work done? And then, two, what's the benefit of doing all of these events and meeting all these people from your perspective?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, i just started doing it last year. So I published my book last year, which I think you know, and I went on this journey of trying to build my personal brand and really build my career. So I started. I knew that I was selling my email marketing agency in October of last year And as soon as I knew that was happening I was I just thought that it was time for the next opportunity And so I started traveling and going to all of the Ecom events And at that time I mean I was running my own business, so it was not a problem. I mean, i'd been growing my agency for five years, had processed out most things at that point, and I really wanted to just be in the midst of all of the brands, of all of the people who are doing big things, who could, i guess, trying to think of the right way to say it. But, like, i was just really trying to build my personal brand and I knew that that was the way to do it Because Nick Sharma told me so He's actually the one who told me to get on Twitter, who told me, go to all of these events. And so I just put full faith in it and started doing it And, honestly, like now, i have probably my closest friends I've met in the last seven months doing this traveling. That's how I met Isaac. That's why I'm at Minicatana. Honestly, it's been incredible And I think I'm coming to a place where it's getting a little bit tiring now. It's been like seven months of constant travel, but I loved it.
Speaker 2:And we smashed it. And we share a familiar position in that I recently exited an agency that I built for about six years.
Speaker 1:Congratulations.
Speaker 2:And well, yeah, somewhat I kind of walked away because it was that more of that kind of situation, But at the same time it was interesting in the last year how just getting involved in Twitter primarily for me but also for you the events It's crazy because when you're an agency, i know you're trying to build these relationships with these people And it's actually really difficult. We found it quite difficult, especially in the UK. And then as soon as you change your focus like for me it was benefiting the community and things like that It's just like, oh, i have all these connections now And what I would have given three years ago for those connections today is crazy. But maybe that's why, maybe because I'm not part of the agency now and what I want has changed. That's why I have these connections.
Speaker 1:I don't know. No, you're absolutely right. So there is some sort of the un I don't know unspoken, unknown barrier in between agency people and brand people. And I was never one to go to these events to try and sell. I started going to them after I knew I was already leaving my agency. But even at that, like when somebody asks you what you do and you say anything other than like, oh, i'm also a brand owner, i work in.
Speaker 2:You know it's bad, doesn't it? You feel it does, It does. It's like a dirty message. It's not ideal.
Speaker 1:Yes, so high five. We are on the other side now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean when you fully landed on the other side, so you've gone from Author to being employed by an incredibly explosive brand. How's that been that contrast of running your own diary, being responsible for an agency, which is a business, and all the obligations that come with that, to now working in house Like? can you just paint a picture of the contrast, of how that feels?
Speaker 1:So, you know, agency life is, or for a lot of people is, really rough, and I, for me, it definitely was. So at our peak we had, you know, 55 people on our team, over 100 clients at one time. It was really busy And I take everything very personally, even if I wasn't involved. So if a client was upset about something or a team member, you know was honestly just anybody's emotions that were negative in any way, i took it directly, and so I carried a lot of anxiety and a lot of pressure constantly. Yes, And I don't feel that anymore. It's actually amazing for many reasons, but one of them being that I mean I still I'm like an extreme ownership type of person. Like you know, isaac and I are like we're in the trenches together, like I'm here, i'm for this, like I'm all mini katana And that's how I am with everything, like I'm all in. But the feeling is just so different now because I get to share that responsibility with someone You know. Isaac owns a certain certain responsibilities within the business and I take the other responsibilities. So I've allowed him more room and he's allowed me to kind of take a deep breath and do what I'm really good at, which, surprisingly, is email. Marketing is not that thing that I consider myself really good at, but it's just honestly. I feel so much lighter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is the thing that you feel really good at if it's not email marketing?
Speaker 1:Business operations. So you said you just. You just found out that I've been running an agency for the last five years. I'm assuming you watched that clip from the Ezra Firestone mastermind.
Speaker 2:I was just listening to all your previous podcasts, which I enjoyed, by the way. Really interesting, yeah, no, i was just catching up on loads. So, yeah, that's what I found out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so during during that time of running the agency, so whenever we started it, i had a business partner. I was never supposed to be the strategist, i was never supposed to be the CEO, and those were things that just naturally happened very early on in the business. But really, where I've always known that my strength is in is in operations And that was initially what I was coming in to help build this agency with a freelancer who'd been doing it for a number of years. So that was just my natural ability. And then during that time I spent around like two, maybe two and a half years, most of that time with a single executive coach that I worked with weekly and taught me really all of the foundations of business that I got to apply in the agency, to scale the agency. But then I can now take into any other business and do the same thing. So now that's what I've done with many. Katana has taken all of that stuff that I learned and brought it here. So I am the ops queen, not the email queen.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Okay, talk to me about an executive coach. Is that? I mean, you know what was your experience? Would you advocate for it?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, absolutely advocate for it. I mean, i guess it depends on who your coach is, but my coach was unbelievable. He he's actually out of LA and he runs a company's got over 500 full time employees, like he's running a big business. So the guy has a ton of experience. He's getting a doctorate right now. He taught finance, has had many, many, many years in CFO CEO position, so I was working with somebody with a ton of experience and he and I had very similar personalities. So I would say like, as long as it's the right coach, that's a good fit for you first of all. But he he taught me how to be a great leader. He taught me, like I said, the foundations of business. So I'm naturally good at operations both out the tools. It's really difficult to build something lasting, so he gave me the tools to be able to do that in any business, and now my career is forever changed because of that. So I cannot advocate for it enough as one of the best things I've ever done for myself. And it was very expensive for me anyway, but it was so worth it.
Speaker 2:And is it something you actually set out to try and find, or is it more serendipitous that you just managed to get chatting to someone?
Speaker 1:So I'd actually tried some agency accelerators, and then this was this was more of a one on one coaching type of situation, because I didn't find that the accelerators were really what I needed, and so making the switch was just. I was just trying to find something that would work for me. So I didn't know that it was going to be the executive coaching, but it just happened to land on this and happen to get put with this amazing, amazing coach.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, and just give us kind of idea of timeline. How long did you actually spend being coached or learning, or is it ongoing? Is it something you continuously do?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's something I still do. I don't work with him anymore, but I really started working with excuse me a coach or now mentors, maybe four years ago, so started going into the accelerators and then worked one on one with him And then now I've been really heavily using mentor pass for the last year, which is how I first met Nick, who I mentioned. I mentioned him in like every podcast, but I feel like I owe so much to him, excuse me, he really helps me in the beginning. But I met him and I met a number of other people and I was actually asking them questions at first about publishing my book and getting some advice around that, because I really didn't know. I didn't know this like Twitter universe existed. I didn't know about all of these e-commerce events. I was all news to me and I really found that connecting with those people outside of mentor pass, just as friends, was actually even more helpful for me. So you know, say like I don't know the five people you hang around the most, around the most like you end up being like. That was definitely what started happening, and so I started putting a bunch of money into mentor pass. I feel like I've got to be in like the top 10 spenders and ask Kenny.
Speaker 2:But I spent a lot of money there.
Speaker 1:I spent a lot of money in mentor pass and no money. Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, good for you. Yeah, well, and I wasn't asking questions anymore. Well, sorry, gina Pirelli got a lot of questions from me because she's a bad ass agency owner, but I started just putting in my OKR section was just meeting cool people, and I met tons of people that way And I'd say at least half of those people I now have a friendship with or more of a relationship with, and, again, one of the best things that I've ever done So even just going from working on myself then to working on the people that surrounded me And Nick says that I buy my friends, which I mean I guess maybe is true, but that's how I went about surrounding myself by a lot of really cool people.
Speaker 2:A decade ago, when I was messing around with Magento, we were quoting apps at 60,000 per platform iOS, android, designed and developed, starting from and companies were buying them because it was such an incredible return on investment. Now, in today's world, in the world of Shopify, tapcar exists And it floored me when I heard that they were going to offer you the ability to have an app in under four weeks. Not only that, that, they design it for you at least the first version and show it to you with a business case without you having to spend a penny. Seriously, you can go and check it out Push notifications, retention, loyalty it's all at your doorstep. It's just smart, though. Right, it's just smart. So did you know that I'm trying to work out? so you went agency book and mentor pass e-commerce. Was that the stepping stone?
Speaker 1:broadly, So it actually was like agency for like four years. And then I started writing my book and right before I published I went to mentor pass. This was back in like June of last year May June And then I didn't start the process of going to sell my agency until October, but I still was continuing to use mentor pass during that time. And then once we decided you know, we were going to sell, then I started going to these events and I was like, okay, time to do something different, what's it going to be? And my friend, ryan McKenzie, that lives here near me in BC, introduced me to a guy named Isaac And he's like Hey, you're going to LA. I have a friend, isaac, that lives in LA. I think you guys should meet. And so I met Isaac for lunch. We became really super fast awesome friends and I did some consulting for him for a few months. And then I love this story Isaac asked me one day after we'd been working together for a couple of months. He was like I don't know what you would do if you were working for me, but the vibes are good. He's like would you ever consider working for me? That's what Isaac's all about is vibes. But at the time I was just kind of shocked because I never thought that I would be working for someone again. But honestly, i'm so glad that I took the plunge and I was if I had this big ego and I was like, Oh, like I'm not going to have, i'm not going to be an employee, i don't want somebody telling me what to do, or that's kind of my attitude. And Isaac was so kind, he was the biggest gentleman. Like I had come into town He would go to the airport and pick me up, he'd come open my door, he put my suitcase in the car. Like I loved all of those things so much And I just like not only was selling my, my company, my business partner going different ways, i was also getting a divorce and it was just like the perfect time where, like Isaac was just like this light that came into my life And it just kind of worked out. And I'm so glad that I took the plunge because I've I'm probably like a thousand times better marketer now. Knowing him and getting to just experience his mind every day. Like it's really is amazing. I don't even know what your question was, but I'm glad he got to talk about Isaac because he deserves to be appreciated for that.
Speaker 2:You appreciate a lot of people. I hope you appreciate yourself, because you you know when I'm listening to what you're saying, you're actually putting all the work in. You are actually creating all of these moments for yourself. But I love the fact that you're that deeply empathetic. You still allow other people to take the credit for your success. But Fair Play to you. What a story, um, cool. So how do you feel transitioning into a business like that? Because, as an agency owner I guess you technically still call me agency owner You're sort of in the position where you're the authority on a subject for you, email for me, i don't know if it would even be Sierra or something, And yet when you have that relationship with the client, um, it's, you're more authoritative. I don't know how to explain it, but you're sort of this is my area, or coming to me for help in this specific area. And then when you go and work for a company that all changes a little bit, um can. Just how did you feel taking those first steps? You, confident, moving into it? Did you come into it knowing that you there was a lot to learn about? Or did you come into it thinking right, i'm going to boss this and take ownership of this. Like, how was your first sort of month moving into mini Katana?
Speaker 1:Um, that's a great really, really. Uh makes me think a lot because I'm trying to remember what it was like those first couple of months. But I don't remember exactly how I felt, but I know that it was very natural in that, you know, i came in and actually my title was like Director of growth or something like that, and then it was VP of growth and then it was COO. So that's my title, that's my title right now as a COO, but it was all very natural. Um, i feel like I got really lucky and that um Isaac is is so good at what he does on the marketing side of things And just like strategically, like the, the really big ideas, like he is the ultimate visionary and I am the ultimate integrated, like I truly believe that Um, and so it was like very natural for you know us to just start having conversations and for him to have an idea or say that there was something that he wanted. Um, and it was just so easy for me to go okay, like this is what we do to do to accomplish that. And very quickly we learned that we played off of each other so well And I also moved from the place of being like really getting to go back to my roots and truly what I felt like I was great at, which was the operational side of things, um and it, it. I just knew what to do and they focused so much on marketing. There hadn't been a lot of focus on operations. So, because that was what I was great at, it was like win, win, win, win, win And uh, it just really naturally became what it is now. So I don't know what it felt like in the beginning, but it's really been just quite a great partnership between the two of us.
Speaker 2:So can you, can you do a little bit deeper on uh, on operations? because, that's right, such a huge chord with me in that shiny object syndrome, lots of ideas, but you really have to have someone who has the talent to be able to do that. I mean, i'm not really the talent to be able to say, okay, well, this is how we do that Um, and actually and actually deliver that. So can you give us kind of a? can you just break down what operations means in the role and the capacity that you're doing it? I'm kind of a example of how you might take an idea and bring that to fruition.
Speaker 1:Absolutely So. Whenever I look at the business, isaac calls it that he zooms out, like he gets really big picture, and that I zoom in, and so one of the first things that I did when I came in was go. So I needed to know that we had the right people on the team first. I'm like learning about the business. I'm learning about the products. I knew nothing about swords I don't think I'd ever even held a sword in my life before But I knew that I needed to go in, that each person individually. I needed to vet each department. So I needed to take what they had in the P&L and I actually I prefer like a much more in depth version of it. So I don't even know if you call it a P&L anymore at this point, but I brought in some of my own people. We broke down the departmental spend. I had to deeply understand like why are we spending this money? Like what is the process here? So it was like each person, each department where the money was being spent, and I just came in to get an entire overview of the business, the way I guess that I then was able to work with Isaac to form the business into what it needed to be to meet his goals is using a lot of those foundational business techniques I guess that I had learned. So we needed to have a clear vision of what do we want to achieve this year. So it was sitting down with Isaac and going okay, what are our goals? Like? if you have to pick, you know three things this year that you want to achieve. What are they? And so it was getting those down. And then it was for me, i build swim lanes I believe it comes from the gazelles coaches with scaling up.
Speaker 2:So going. Okay. When was the most of the swim lanes did you say?
Speaker 1:There's a book called Scaling Up And there are some coaches called gazelles coaches, and the company I worked at before I started my agency. They came in and were coaching the leadership team within that company, and so I got to learn a lot there as well, even before I went to the agency life, and they're called swim lanes. And so I take this goal that Isaac has given me and I go okay, i break down by department and by quarter or month whatever I need to break it down by and go okay, in order to achieve this goal. What resources do I need from which department or which person on which timeline in order to get there? And so it's just kind of working backwards, right, but there are a number of other foundational things that you have to have So that this all works really smoothly. And I actually call it building a machine. And so there's who is responsible? who is actually responsible for what? Does each person know that they're responsible for that, or is it just something that is expected of them that they don't actually know is expected of them? Do they have certain metrics that they're working towards? So it was like building a dashboard so that Isaac and I could see exactly what numbers we needed to be looking at in order to hit his goals. Building out the SOPs for each person were like cross training, people to de-risk, like there are so many things that go into it, but it was really just applying all of that stuff that I had learned at the agency and being able to take his vision and work backwards and just like build this beautiful machine. And it's only been, let's see, like six, almost seven months so far that I've been working with Isaac, but we've come a really long way and we have the swim lanes planned out now And it's we know who needs to do what and why And everybody is really coming together. And I feel this like really beautiful change, even in culture, because there is just such clarity around where we're going, what each person is doing, how we all contribute and work together, and it's been really awesome.
Speaker 2:That's a huge task in a very small amount of time. I don't know, do you enjoy doing that? Do you enjoy it Do? you enjoy it Really, wow, okay.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. So how much, how much have you had to learn? So you had this foundation before and you used that. You've put these foundations in What has been the biggest learning curve since you've joined.
Speaker 1:I would say that on teams prior I built the culture from the ground up. So coming in a place that already had something established that needed some work, like that, was something that was a little bit difficult for me and that was kind of rough in the beginning. I mean, unfortunately, you know, they were mini Katana grew so fast in such a short period of time that there were quite a few people on the team that just really weren't good fits, that maybe weren't vetted properly or didn't have proper expectations set of them, whatever the case may be And we went from about 50 employees to now about 15. So that whole transition, and very quickly, was pretty significant. I learned a lot there. But I've been bloated in my agency too, so I knew a little bit of how to go about that. I learned about COGS. I knew nothing about that before. So we actually cut COGS by 40% as well in this time, just by going direct to factory, getting translators, setting terms, which we didn't have before. So I learned all about all about that And gosh. I mean there have been a number of things that are e-commerce specific that I've had to learn during this time that don't apply in agency life, but I'd say, like 80% of it like is the same foundation. So I feel pretty confident, like going into any business, that 80% of it would be the same stuff. It's just that little last 20% that is specific to a certain industry or even a specific business.
Speaker 2:What's the two questions? What's the one thing that you've done so far in your role there that's made the biggest difference to the bottom line in your opinion, and what's the hardest thing you've done so far since you've been there?
Speaker 1:The biggest thing? well, those two things. I know you said one, but cutting COGS and leaning out the team to just truly what we needed, like that, made a huge difference to bottom line. In the long run, though, i think it's just that Isaac has now the space to be the honestly genius that he is, and he's constantly coming up with new ideas and new angles for where we're taking the business strategically, or what we're doing with YouTube, or what we're doing in product Like. He really gets to actually have the space to think about those things, and he didn't have that space before, and I think that, in the long run, him having that is actually going to make the biggest difference for Minikotana in the long run.
Speaker 2:My prediction is that in the long-ish run is that you'll be the CEO and he'll be some kind of creative that sits and that's what they do best. I see it tons like in representing Jim Shark, for example, in others like, you have the person that has the thoughts, the ideas and they do what they do best. They stick to their brand, they stick to their products and then you bring in a operational, focused CEO Who can nail it. Do you think that's something you would do should the opportunity arise?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's possible. Isaac and I do work very well together, so Minikotana is, in my opinion, like I like the 80-20 rule of all of the work that needed to be done. We're like 80% of the way there and, because we work so well together, he's had some other projects that he's been wanting to work on, and so I think that there is a future where it's not just Minikotana that we're working on together, it's multiple businesses, so that very well could be in our near future.
Speaker 2:Give us an idea as well of the growth rate of these businesses, because from what we see is like it's been crazy. He always gets mentioned in stuff and I know some other big brands are like these guys are killing it and you constantly get shoutouts. How has it been as crazy a trajectory as everyone seems to think it has been? How has that been just joining that environment?
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean it's fun to be the cool kid, it's fun to go to the events and people will be like, oh wow, you're from Minikotana or even coming here with you. There is a lot of notoriety that goes along with working with Isaac working in Minikotana, and I mean the growth really has been explosive. Minikotana is like two years old and being completely bootstrapped from nothing. I think I'm trying to remember how much he did in the first year. I want to say it was like 2.5 million and then to 10 million second year and we're still growing And actually on that I know I want to get a little bit to what we're going, what our plans are for this year as well for further growth. But there are a couple of things. So he grew very fast revenue-wise in two years. But also the YouTube growth is what I think is most impressive to people, because I don't know of many businesses at all that have quite figured out what Isaac has in that all of our traffic is from organic viral videos, primarily on YouTube. And so, coming from I don't know, i think the YouTube channel started maybe in May of last year to now being like 3 million subscribers. I think we had like 500 million views. That was across all platforms but a ton of those from YouTube last month. It's really growing very quickly And I get to real time see the strategy that goes into that and it's really incredible, honestly. So I think that's probably the most impressive part of it. Yes, the company has also grown very fast and it's also in an area where people told Isaac like he was going to fail. They're like how many people really going to buy swords? Like the TAM is so small And I mean now we have gone past where it was supposed to be right. So now we face this problem of being under monetized because of the volume of traffic that we do have coming to the site and that we have not all like. It's not the standard e-commerce brand. I've worked personally with over 200 brands through my agency. We worked with over 500 over the time period, so I've seen a lot and I've never seen the affinity that these customers have for this brand, which is really incredible, i think, the way that it was built. But we are quite under monetized for the traffic that we have. So now we actually just dropped apparel for the first time a couple of months ago, went really well And we've now just are finishing up the final logistics for being able to just like really kind of turn into an apparel company, which is amazing Like we're going to be an apparel company that sells swords, almost. So this is again where you know nobody I don't think anybody saw this coming, but Isaac had the foresight to go OK, we've hit our TAM. Now what do we do? and pivot into apparel, which is a really great fit, for you know the age of our customer and the type of apparel that we're now offering, and it's going to be really cool to see this play out. I think we're doing our. We did one drop and we're doing another presale next week, but everything that we're seeing so far in terms of the reaction to this stuff is looking really, really positive, so I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Congratulations. I just want you to turn into a double agent for a minute, knowing what you know now and being on the inside of this amazing machine. Like you said about the content machine and the incredible uniqueness of that compared to a lot of other e-commerce businesses, do you think that if another e-commerce business in another industry obviously you have a really great product with the swords but a company that sells interior lighting or a company that sells whatever else, do you think they could adopt a similar strategy and get a lot of traffic organically through things like YouTube? Or do you think that the product is so overwhelmingly lends itself to that audience? Just, i'm interested to see whether you would advocate that for most other brands or not. Should they invest in a content creation machine like the one you have? Rewind really is table stakes for any e-commerce store. It backs your store up consistently and it offers you an undo button just in case something was to go wrong on your store. Let's be honest, it can happen And it also provides you a staging environment so that you can have a carbon copy of your live environment to do all your testing on your QA, trying your ideas, and not have to worry about breaking something on the live environment Check code. Conflicts app conflicts, everything in between. It's a must have. Go and install it.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I think the answer to that is no, but only because it takes a very like if they had Isaac, perhaps. But so there are. So, you know, working with him, there are opportunities that I do see with other brands to maybe do something similar. I think there is. You know that there is that really cool factor with Swords. Oh, you know, we understand that, but I do think that it can be replicated but not across the board and it's very difficult to do. So something that Isaac has been teaching me lately is that, yeah, it is really fucking cool that we were able to build this and that we're continuing to build it and that this is working for us and it's really unique, But it's not necessarily the best option. Like this is not free. Like we spend a lot of money on our content and we've got a ton of full-time employees working on this content, working on YouTube, that are posting on TikTok and Instagram, and like this isn't just like an easy thing that we're doing, and I think that's maybe where people don't see. They don't see all of the effort that goes into it, you know. So, to answer your question, no, i don't think that everybody should just invest in this, because it's not necessarily an easy thing and it's not something that's going to work for everyone, i mean, but again, i'm not the mastermind. Maybe Isaac could sit here and tell you like, yes, i will make anything viral, but for me, like I don't personally see that, I see it for some, not for all.
Speaker 2:And from your perspective, is it science or magic? Is there a playbook for this that you run every time in a process that you go through and correct to create these videos from what you can see? Or is it snow bathtub inspiration that creates this idea that then becomes a video?
Speaker 1:So there is a lot of creativity. obviously. that starts it, but I'm the like you know. okay, you want this result, like what are the things that get you there? And I genuinely think that it is something that can be written down not exactly, but I do think that it can be written down and replicated. Have not tried to do it, but I do think that it's possible. So I think there are a lot of things that go into it, especially whenever you start looking at analytics and whenever you get into the algorithm of any platform and trying to work with that, like that side of things, definitely. So maybe a little bit of all.
Speaker 2:Is it more difficult for you in operations, like when you started this conversation by saying that you destroyed the P&L and kind of made it into a bigger thing, which is great Something that I could definitely not do? It's more of a CFO thing, if anything, but does it make it more difficult? when you're playing with things like I'm sure you're doing Facebook ad spend, but when that becomes your primary source of traffic or conversion, you know the parameters you're working with and you know the ceiling, you know the floor, you know it's going to be somewhere in between that and you can fairly accurately forecast things and look at year over year data. When you're dealing with viral videos, how do you bring that into that model? How do you sleep at night? going okay, well, next month we've done these numbers, but it kind of relies on Isaac coming up with a good video. Can you just give us an idea about how that actually works?
Speaker 1:So this is, yes, there is some reliance on our creators and Isaac coming up with really great ideas, but it also is it has become a flywheel now as well. Like we've we're working the algorithm and we're posting when we're supposed to post, how much we're supposed to post, like editing the videos in a certain way, like there there are a number of things at work, not just the ideas behind the videos. So I mean, there is risk in that, though, like I don't know, youtube, i guess, could completely change their algorithm for some reason. And then we're like, what the fuck do we do now? But I mean, we have to, i guess, just trust that what we're doing is going to continue to work and that we're continuing to adapt And like most of our energy goes into, like when we look overall at all of our employees and what Isaac's thinking about, like most of it is going into this. So, fingers crossed, youtube doesn't change its algorithm significantly.
Speaker 2:I'm sure with Google, didn't we, back in the day, penguin or whatever it was, when they completely shifted their SEO algorithm and that messed up a lot of companies? But I think it ultimately comes down to are you a good company or not? If you're tricking things and trying to, then you're probably not a good company. But also, these people don't. do they fall off a cliff? Like do you feel like you have to consistently hit viral videos to keep the audience coming back? Or what kind of retention do you see from the YouTube audience versus, like, a Facebook audience? Are they sticky or not?
Speaker 1:So when we look at I mean, everything comes from YouTube So whenever I just look at retention in general, i was actually surprised at how high it was. It's like 25% repeat And again I was very surprised to see that because it's swords, you know. But again we're making that play of going into apparel where hopefully that gets a hell of a lot higher And we bring in even more customers that for some reason or other, maybe they're too young to buy a sword or they can't afford it or they're like what am I going to do with a sword, but love the brand? We're hoping to be able to further monetize the customers that we already have and then monetize those that are there. They want to buy from us, but they're not going to buy a sword.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, okay. So what is your, what is your role at like moving forwards now, then looking into the future a little bit, have you got like a roadmap of challenges that you're going to try and solve, or are you being a bit flexible with your kind of next task?
Speaker 1:We have a roadmap But, as I mentioned, we are also working on some other opportunities at the moment. So my my vision for my role within many Katana would be to be in a place where I I know enough of what is going on and I'm still able to lead our L10 calls. On Monday, i, all of our leadership team reports to me and then I report to Isaac. So, continuing to develop my team, continuing to delegate to them and really build the beautiful machine like I was talking about, while taking Isaac's strategy and we're adding new products and we're, you know, doing whatever it is that we're doing, and for this to actually be something that doesn't require a ton of my time or of his time, but we still are so impactful in our particular expertise, areas of expertise, that we can then take that and then also work on other things together as well.
Speaker 2:When might we see some of these other things? Have we got a date?
Speaker 1:Um, one of them in August and the other definitely this year as well, so both both this year. there's a lot of stuff that we're working on, but we're both kind of crazy and very determined individuals.
Speaker 2:It sounds like a lot of fun. I mean, there's money flowing in, You've got creativity You've got. There's so many fun things around that.
Speaker 1:I mean it sounds great.
Speaker 2:So you're probably one of the most exposed at the moment to the e-commerce bubble in general. Just just from seeing the people you're talking to, the events you're going, I was your take on everything that's going on and because it's not a gloomy picture in e-commerce in general, but, like the people I seem to meet are all thriving and doing really, really well. Like, what's your general feelings around e-commerce? and I mean just from surveying the landscape as you have and talking to people, Have you got any kind of insights and or feedback on the sentiment of e-commerce? Is everyone doing as good as they say? or you know what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:I think that the, the established brands, are doing very well. I'm kind of the same sentiment as you were. There are a lot of my friends that are doing very well. But I also do see that side of things where there are the smaller you know maybe I don't know seven or six to eight figure range. That I think is probably more impacted than like the eight to nine and up. And so do you know the stat that, like pre COVID, there were I don't know something like five million e-commerce stores, and now I like post COVID, there are like 15 million or something like that. Yeah, so it was something wild. I remember looking it up and writing it, like while I was doing research for my book. And I remember when COVID hit, that you know we probably had. I don't know how many clients we had during that time but, like I said, we got up to like 110 clients and I'm seeing their revenue, i'm seeing their performance, at least on the email side. but, clavio, you can see enough. So we have access to all of these stores and we're just seeing all of them just start like shooting up and we're just seeing all of them. And so we definitely saw, before I left, that a lot of them were tapering down and some of the sentiment that I'm getting from my team now is that you know a lot of them are struggling. And I think you know my agency did work with, we worked with some really big brands like we helped. we helped Tai Lopez launch a couple of them that you know he bought for us During like that time. he bought I don't know 10 different ones And we've worked with some bigger ones too, but I think we primarily were more of like the seven to eight bigger range. So like those that I'm saying I think are more impacted. So that's kind of where what I'm hearing right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, yeah, for sure. So let's just jump into this book, then, because I'm really intrigued as to who. I can't fathom who would choose willingly to write a book for me is I mean, you couldn't pay me enough? I can't concentrate on 30 seconds of one thing From everyone I've ever spoken to, it's a massive, massive task to write a book. A Twitter thread is long enough for me to plan. So one I want to know is it just, is that just, you do enjoy writing? Is that something you've always wanted to do? And then two, why, then? why do you write the book then and there? And then the final question is can you give us kind of a breakdown of the book and the kind of purpose it serves, or the purpose you wanted it to serve?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So the first question of do I enjoy writing? Not really, not really, not really.
Speaker 2:Or just not really in general.
Speaker 1:Just not really in general. Honestly, i wrote the book because I wanted to start building my personal brand and I had gained a lot of knowledge And I wanted to be able to share that with people and go on to, i guess, the next leg up of my career. I've been so head down like under a rock Working on the agency for so long and came up like had processed everything out, where I wasn't, you know, so deeply involved in the business anymore and I was starting to be able to breathe and go see the bigger picture and go okay, we're getting all of our leads from cold email and up work and I don't know anybody in the space aside from the clients that we have, and so I thought it'd be a really good idea for me to To do that in order to kind of like elevate my presence within the industry and that's why I started writing it. I didn't. I didn't even really I thought I was gonna take me two weeks. I was like I'm gonna be able to do this really quick, no problem. And then I realized that there are a lot of beliefs that we have. I mean, then this can be true for, i guess, any area of life that we don't actually know why we believe those things. And so I had to start While I was teaching breakdown why do I actually believe this? and I learned so much through that process. I'm so grateful that I went through it. But even now I look back at the book and I go okay, i would completely change my campaign section, i would completely change my pop up section. Like, i've learned so much since then. I did have the I can't think of the word I did I did have the idea that I would need to have another one published this year. So there is gonna be another one coming out And I'm pardon. I said it's awesome operation, no, so this is gonna be emails, not dead. the second edition yes, the first one even has first edition on it. foresight is the word that I was looking for the foresight to know that I would need another one. so I actually have a co author for this one, somebody that, honestly, is so much better at email marketing than I am and like is the person that I most respect in e-commerce email marketing, that is working on this new edition with me, and so I'm excited for that to do this with him, and I actually did start another book That is based on.
Speaker 2:You are sure someone who doesn't enjoy writing. you're certainly put yourself in situations to Know what it is.
Speaker 1:I'm just like the. I'm such an overachiever. And do you know any a gram? do you know the any a gram test?
Speaker 2:Not a clue. what is it?
Speaker 1:It's a, it's like a personality test and literally my, mine is the achiever. and so I'm always like what, what can I Bring, what can I like provide to the world? and I realize that I actually didn't really realize how needed my skill set is in e-commerce until I posted a like. I put the tweet up a few weeks ago going over this accountability chart that I had created and just like I've had so many people come to me and ask me to help them with it and I've been helping a bunch of people with it. But just like the demand, like asking me to coach and like I don't have time for know that, but I didn't realize how needed it was. so I'm hoping that I can Take the mini Katana story of like what I implemented and like in each department And that I can help other businesses in that way and that I mean they can also go read scaling up or whatever, but to have it directly applied to a business that is very similar to yours, i think will be more helpful. And I want to do the storytelling around. you know mini Katana and going and sharing Isaac's story and anyway, i do not like to write long story short.
Speaker 2:I only discovered the book when I listened to your podcast. So it's on my kindle download list and I shall be tweeting some of my favorite quotes from the book, but I'll be sure to credit you. I want to steal them. I like to bring this in what are some of the things that you think, just based on what you said, they're e-commerce companies are missing that are really crucial from either an operations perspective or just from a management perspective. You think it's worthwhile them looking into? where do you see some of the biggest gaps? because, from my perspective, a lot of these e-commerce brands have typically a similar to if we're going down the personality test route, have a sip. It typically have a founder. That probably falls into one of two personality test categories by large. I don't know if that's true or not, but they tend to be quite ambitious, quite gun hoe, try this, it work, didn't work whatever. And don't spend a whole lot of time, you know, putting the foundation in behind them to actually achieve some of the things that they might be able to achieve. Is that an opinion you share as well? like just want to get an idea if someone's listening to this and they're like oh man, i need a car in my business. What are some of the things that they could be doing without you to improve their overall business?
Speaker 1:It all goes top top down. so making sure that they have that vivid vision for what they're actually trying to achieve in that year or in the coming years, that they have the project plan for exactly what resources it will take, on what timeline, to get there, and that each individual person Not like not only that they know what is expected of them, but that you know what you expect of them, so that their like accountability is very clear And that you have KPIs for each individual person so they know whether or not they're doing a good job. you know whether or not they're doing a good job, and then you have some sort of dashboard that you're monitoring on a regular basis to make sure that whatever metrics it is that you're tracking are trending the way that you need them to in order to reach the goals that you're heading towards. Those are, i mean, some, some of the bigger things that we've been working on a mini Katana, but I mean I think you can pick up, pick up a couple of different books. that'll really help. so scaling up, like I mentioned, eos is another good one. I kind of like pick and choose what I use, like being too rigid and applying even vivid vision or the accountability chart, like it doesn't have to be perfect And if you try to be too rigid with it, like it just might not be a good fit for your business. so just remember that when you're going through it. But last thing I would say is like hiring process is really important and core values are really important, and not that like we are excellent or determination, like those types of things like true core values that you'll, you'll. if somebody has these, you'll look at them and go like, holy shit, this is like I, this person, i need this person on my team And like my very favorite core value is ability to figure shit out. that's one of our core values at my agency and many Katana now. But really understanding what those are and I think it usually comes from the founder like what is it that? that, what reflection of you do you need to see in other people, or even things that maybe you know that you're missing, that you need your team to have, because then you get into situations where, if you don't have the right team, like it's really hard to move forward as well. So I know that was a lot of things, but I feel they're all pretty important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think it sums up really the operations is is a lot of things. It's not just, like you know, he's a huge role within the business and a really important one. Having the right person to that and, like you said, i don't think there's enough people with an operations mindset that are sharp and good at executing with operations in this industry. I think we could really benefit from it, and I think a lot of founders are averse to it because they feel like it puts the brakes on, it slows you down. Process is the enemy of progress, but that's just not the case. Discipline Unlock so much and having a plan is reassuring one, but you also know when you're straying and when you're when the business is going the wrong way, and so the value that, if you could I mean if you were to put a number on it You're six months, seven months there, you know. I imagine it would have been. It's probably one of the best investments they've ever made, bringing you in in terms of like. Would you agree with that in terms of in terms of how the business has changed and what the potential Up tick of that business is going to be moving forwards, and always blow your own trumpet too hard, but you know it. It sounds like you've made a huge impact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i mean you know there were lots of amazing decisions that led to this place, but this year It's probably one of probably the best thing that has happened to many Katana and I try to be humble so I feel weird saying that but yes, it absolutely has changed the trajectory of the company for the better in a big way.
Speaker 2:Cool, so chat GPT to write job descriptions, yes or no?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Fair play to you All. Right, i think that's enough for one episode, and I massively appreciate you coming on. Everyone, please go and buy the book, or at least read it. I know I will, in fact, let me read it first, and then I'll give it an honest review. I'm sure it's fantastic. And how's your new life? You just relocated, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, i actually only live like I don't know 10 minutes from my old house, but life is good. Like I said when you know, started going through the forest end of last year and it's been honestly amazing. I've been traveling a ton, meeting a lot of great people, dating a bunch, which has been really fun. I'm happier than I've ever been in my entire life, so I would say it's good.
Speaker 2:All right, Final questions. Name one of not the best, but just one of the most influential conversations you've had, either with a mental past or just a brushing event. What was some you know, someone or something that was said that really landed with you? That's the first question. I'll let you answer that one first.
Speaker 1:So the answer to this is going to be great for operators podcast, because so Jason is a good friend of mine and I kind of met Jason, initially in passing and like we have really gotten to know him now And I feel like most conversations I have with him have a pretty big impact on me, as you know, like this amazing experience. And then now I've had the opportunity to meet Sean in person a couple of times And, while I haven't had like too many in depth conversations with Sean, like I listened to operators podcast and I listened to all of them and I have to say that they give me, i guess, more insight into e-commerce, because I came from like the agency side and not brand side, and it helps me reframe the way that I think about things. Even in many Katana, even whenever it's, you know, something to do with performance marketing, whatever that we don't even, it doesn't even touch us, but I get to learn about those things through them And I know it's not just one conversation, one person, but like I love Jason, sean is amazing and I love listening to operators podcast, so that helps me a lot.
Speaker 2:Huge plug there for Operates Podcast. But thank you, and my very, very last question is and something that I've seen is this company, sendlane, i wonder if you had an opinion, or you still die hard, caio, oh, wow.
Speaker 1:We're getting to the spicy questions. I love Claudio so much. Obviously I'm a Claudio fan girl. I went, you know. I've been to their office and I know lots of people on their team love them. I have been. I've met Jimmy a couple of times now and I've been curious about Sendlane. I talked to him once and it sounds like it's potentially a good alternative Right now. I think their biggest issue is that Claudio, just like Claudio, has all of the integrations and they have a lot more manpower for what they're working towards at the moment. I think maybe that's where Sendlane doesn't quite have the advantage, especially with the integrations. I think there are a few key ones that they could get that would really help them be heavier hitters when they're competing. I do not know, i've not used it myself yet, but I do think that it has some potential to play some ball with Claudio at some point in the near future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's see. I just I keep hearing and seeing them everywhere, so I was just wondering if you had an email queen opinion on it. Who else should we have on the show? Who do you think would be a good guest on Ecom Gold? Preferably women, if you know of any absolute killers in the space, but in general a couple of people that you think.
Speaker 1:Have you had Molly Pittman yet?
Speaker 2:I haven't had Molly Pittman yet I saw her on I think she was on YouTube broadcast, so maybe I'll reach out to Molly.
Speaker 1:She's amazing. I got to meet her a couple of times. We both spoke in Puerto Rico a few weeks ago or maybe like a month ago, and I loved her. She is a cool person. Molly Pittman 100%.
Speaker 2:All right, DM coming your way, Molly, but listen, it's been brilliant to finally have you on the show. I really appreciate you taking the time. Of course, I'm going to stay up to date. I can people stay up to date with you as well.